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IRC logs for #guix, 2016-12-09 (GMT)

2016-12-08
2016-12-10
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[00:00:52]<Petter>ACTION stops timer
[00:01:12]<Petter>Ah, just after the reboot world record. Sorry.
[00:01:25]<lfam>Lol. I actually did some stuff after the reboot. It's not that slow ;)
[00:01:35]<Petter>:P
[00:02:59]<Petter>I like the idea of writing just to /gnu/store, rather than the going by /tmp/guix-build*. That's what you meant, right?
[00:07:30]<lfam>Petter: Yes, it seems more efficient
[00:07:45]<Petter>Indeed. Thought just never occurred to me.
[00:08:09]<lfam>Spending lots of time with Guix on a spinning disk has made me think about this issue more often :)
[00:09:13]<Petter>Ah, my X200 is so blazingly fast that even gross inefficiencies goes unnoticed.
[00:10:15]<lfam>I love seeing my 4 core machine's load spike to 25
[00:14:40]<Petter>Luckily they go all the way up to 26, so when you really need it you can crank it up one more.
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[00:15:53]<lfam>I'm sure mine goes higher than 26 ;) I can run `guix gc`, trigger some btrfs background operation, and run a backup all at once. Then it's a good time to take a break
[00:17:17]<Petter>Oh, I interpreted it as 25 being 100% for 4 cores.
[00:17:25]<lfam>No, that would be 4 ;)
[00:17:43]<Petter>Hence the Spinal Tap joke.
[00:17:52]<lfam>25 is a computer where the only thing that responds is the mouse cursor
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[00:35:08]<lfam>albertoefg: Hi! Want to play hedgewars?
[00:35:32]<albertoefg>lfam: i am sorry :( i am from my phone
[00:35:37]<albertoefg>i am at a funeral
[00:35:43]<lfam>Oh, I'm sorry to hear that :(
[00:35:53]<albertoefg>i ambnot sad don't worry lfam
[00:36:04]<albertoefg>we can play tomorrow or later :)
[00:36:18]<lfam>Okay, cool!
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[06:38:33]<albertoefg2>sneek: tell lfam that albertoefg will beat your ass tomorrow don't worry
[06:38:34]<sneek>lfam, albertoefg2 says: that albertoefg will beat your ass tomorrow don't worry
[06:40:31]<albertoefg2>lol :)
[06:40:51]<albertoefg2>just kidding lfam you won fare and square..
[06:41:00]<lfam>Heh :)
[06:41:01]<albertoefg2>or fair
[06:41:03]<albertoefg2>not sure
[06:41:05]<albertoefg2>that :P
[06:41:11]<albertoefg2>you understood
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[08:38:44]<rekado>re cross-building for macOS: I looked at this a while ago, but it seems that you must have at least the XCode SDK to even get GCC to work.
[08:39:08]<rekado>there’s an ancient abandoned port of the glibc, but that doesn’t seem to be usable.
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[09:45:30]<civodul>Hello Guix!
[09:47:34]<Petter>Hi civodul!
[09:48:12]<Petter>lfam, LLLFAAAAAAAM. It works, it builds :D
[09:49:10]<Petter>Oh, not online.
[09:49:23]<Petter>Well, Syncthing builds now :)
[09:54:50]<civodul>awesome :-)
[09:54:55]<civodul>Petter: great that you're working on Go!
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[09:58:16]<Petter>I feel valuable experience was gained with Syncthing to work out a more robust build system than before.
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[10:03:24]<efraim>with harmut's pyqt-5.6 patch, calibre builds with pyqt-5.6, which means we can drop pyqt-5.5
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[10:05:09]<efraim>grrr, we still need urlview
[10:07:35]<Petter>I'm wondering; can, and would it make sense for, the build system to make the symlinks done in the 'build phase here, http://sprunge.us/aXEH ?
[10:09:26]<Petter>I think symlinks is the always-work-choice, while the GOPATH trick is more fragile.
[10:21:13]<fredmanglis>Hi there. Is there a way to reuse the build files retained with 'guix build -K'
[10:22:14]<fredmanglis>I find myself trying to package something that is taking a really long time to compile from scratch
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[10:25:47]<civodul>Petter: i think the "go-build-system" should have a separate phase that sets up those symlinks
[10:26:05]<civodul>it's always better to separate phases: it allows people to skip them, override them, etc.
[10:26:44]<civodul>fredmanglis: yes: you can "chown -R /tmp/guix-build-whatever", then cd there, then "source environment-variables", and then build/debug from there
[10:26:58]<civodul>the 'environment-variables' files contains all the necessary env vars
[10:27:09]<jmd>Do we have any packages for mimeencoding files?
[10:27:16]<fredmanglis>civodul, sweet! Thanks!
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[10:30:38]<Petter>Separate phase sounds good. Making the symlinks behind the scenes would be great.
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[11:50:44]<thomasd>g
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[11:57:12]<Petter>Can the build system get the url used in (source (origin))?
[12:01:56]<thomasd>probably something like (origin-uri (package-source my-package))
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[12:02:57]<thomasd>maybe you'd need to make the (guix packages) module available (not sure if it's available by default)
[12:03:23]<Petter>I'm working on the build system itself now, for Go.
[12:03:56]<Petter>In guix/build/go-build-system.scm.
[12:05:09]<Petter>I get "Unbound variable: origin-uri".
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[12:10:00]<Petter>Maybe I need a phase that must always be replaced, where the "importpath" (Go thing) is specified. It can usually be derived from the url.
[12:34:05]<efraim>Check out python build system, it makes changes based on python2 or python3, it's not what you're looking for, but it might lead you in the right path
[12:34:50]<efraim>I'd also look for where the version of a package is pulled over, that's closer in that it would be evaluated later and not analyizing an input
[12:34:50]<Petter>ACTION looks
[12:37:31]<Petter>Interesting, "(define* (pypi-uri name version"
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[12:56:06]<htgoebel>efraim: Given that calibre still required Pyqt 5.5: Okay to push the three pyqt patches?
[12:58:05]<efraim>htgoebel: yeah, they all look good
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[13:23:07]<htgoebel>efraim: Fine. I just pushed them
[13:25:44]<roelj>Does Calibre actually run on your machines?
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[14:01:02]<htgoebel>roelj: No, it fails with "ImportError: No module named QtWebKitWidgets"
[14:02:16]<roelj>Right. I've been having that for a long time. (hanging on to an old version ever since)
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[14:10:22]<htgoebel>You may want to try to build calibre with qt 5.7 plus qtwebkit 5.7. Debian is using it with PyQT 5.7, see https://packages.debian.org/sid/calibre
[14:11:48]<htgoebel>roelj: Do you want to take care of this? Would be great!
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[14:20:09]<rekado>I'm working on a qtwebkit package, but it isn't ready yet
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[14:25:04]<civodul>rekado: we already have one AFAICS
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[14:30:18]<roelj>htgoebel: Unfortunately, I have a serious time deficiency to work on it. Sorry
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[14:38:49]<thomasd>htgoebel roelj: have you tried switching to modular qt packages?
[14:39:03]<thomasd>that fixed the same issue for texmaker
[14:40:26]<thomasd>i.e. instead of "qt", use inputs "qtbase" and "qtwebkit" (possibly some others, too)
[14:42:58]<roelj>Yes, I tried. But I think Calibre needs PyQtWebkitWidgets
[14:45:05]<htgoebel>thomasd: Esp. the python bindings for qtwebkit are missing.
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[15:00:14]<rekado>civodul: oh, indeed. What I'm working on is qtwebview and qtwebengine.
[15:01:09]<civodul>oh i see, qtwebstuff all around!
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[15:06:58]<rekado>I have a problem with certificate validation again
[15:07:07]<rekado>I'm in "guix environment guix"
[15:07:13]<rekado>so I have guile and gnutls
[15:07:26]<rekado>running "guix import cran -a bioconductor MSnID" I get an error
[15:07:34]<rekado>guix/build/download.scm:383:6: In procedure tls-wrap:
[15:07:37]<rekado>guix/build/download.scm:383:6: X.509 certificate of 'hedgehog.fhcrc.org' could not be verified:
[15:07:51]<rekado>oh, wait...
[15:08:07]<rekado>no SSL certs dir among the environment variables
[15:08:34]<rekado>it's fine after export SSL_CERT_DIR=/home/rwurmus/.guix-profile/etc/ssl/certs
[15:08:57]<rekado>sorry for the noise
[15:10:31]<civodul>good that it was easily fixed :-)
[15:16:51]<htgoebel>civodul: We still have the test-case "guix gc --keep-going" open. You remember: there is a bug in nix-daemon freeing store locks for the same process.
[15:16:52]<htgoebel>I'd like to finish this task and enable the test-case later.
[15:16:52]<htgoebel>WDYT?
[15:18:51]<civodul>htgoebel: problem is the bug will take a bit of time to address
[15:19:00]<civodul>it's easily fixed, but several tests rely on the buggy behavior
[15:19:09]<civodul>so we'll need to carefully check what to do
[15:19:20]<civodul>i can't do that right now, so i think we'll have to postpone a bit
[15:19:26]<civodul>sorry!
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[15:25:04]<htgoebel>civodul: postbone the whole "guix gc --keep-going", or just the test-case?
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[15:39:24]<civodul>htgoebel: both, we won't commit the thing without the test case :-)
[15:39:35]<civodul>unless maybe we can write the test case in a different way?
[15:39:35]<civodul>dunno
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[15:48:36]<quiliro>hello
[15:49:22]<quiliro>i have successfully installed guixsd in 9 hours
[15:49:43]<quiliro>with just the base desktop.scm configuration
[15:49:51]<quiliro>the default file
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[15:51:55]<quiliro>it is a centrino duo
[15:52:08]<quiliro>32 bits
[15:53:12]<jin>:- )
[15:53:48]<quiliro>it is not possible to reproduce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOolAnW9a6Y&feature=youtu.be
[15:54:08]<quiliro>it is a guix talk posted on youtube
[15:55:12]<quiliro>what package should i install in order to reproduce html5?
[15:56:08]<jin>try with icecat
[15:56:09]<davexunit>quiliro: you mean you want to download this video? you can use youtube-dl for that
[15:56:31]<quiliro>i do not like to download but just reproduce
[15:57:19]<quiliro>i would like to use the default software and its addons
[15:57:24]<davexunit>I don't understand
[15:57:29]<davexunit>sorry
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[16:27:31]<quiliro>sorry
[16:27:36]<quiliro>something happened
[16:27:44]<quiliro>that i could not type
[16:29:11]<quiliro>davexunit: I want a stack that an end user has all that they need
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[16:37:22]<buenouanq>quiliro: you do, just install it
[16:37:23]<quiliro>i found that the gnome browser (GNOME Web) would download the videos and then you can click on downloads and reproduce them....but it will not do so in youtube
[16:37:41]<buenouanq>what do you mean by reproduce?
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[16:37:55]<quiliro>buenouanq: i know i have tyo install it...but i don't know what to install
[16:38:09]<quiliro>buenouanq: reproduce=play
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[16:39:02]<buenouanq>my unhelpful stance on this is that a wobbrowser has no right to be a mini virtual operating system - Videos should be played with a video player.
[16:39:12]<buenouanq>I highly recommend mpv.
[16:39:37]<quiliro>buenouanq: that is something i would like to try....
[16:39:43]<buenouanq>for things it can't play directly, youtube-dl and livestreamer are very nice and helpful
[16:39:59]<quiliro>but would not like to meke the user think too much about what to do
[16:40:18]<quiliro>s/meke/make
[16:40:21]<jin>quiliro: in Icecat you can see some videos
[16:40:46]<buenouanq>$ mpv <url> isn't asking too much, is it?
[16:40:57]<quiliro>jin: what is the difference between icecant and gnome web?
[16:41:10]<quiliro>buenouanq: it is for an end user
[16:41:36]<buenouanq>icecant K3c
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[16:44:43]<buenouanq>Icecat is GNU"s packaging of Mozilla"s Firefox browser - `Web' used to be Epiphany which was forked from Galeon but is still Gecko (Mozilla) based. or something
[16:46:07]<buenouanq>I disagree - End users need to stop pretending like they incapable of learning or doing something in a different way than what they're used to.
[16:46:53]<civodul>let's not call them "end users" to begin with :-)
[16:48:09]<quiliro>is it possible that the browser will open mvp or so if it you click a youtube video it is played directly with mvp without other actions necessary?
[16:48:09]<buenouanq>because guix is only the beginning ;3
[16:49:27]<buenouanq>the first you can do simply with a plugin (though I don't remember which), the second is a little more complex and I've yet to find a good way to do it
[16:49:51]<civodul>quiliro: browsers play videos directly in their own window
[16:50:30]<quiliro>civodul: gnome web will not
[16:50:50]<civodul>oh, probably a bug
[16:51:02]<civodul>a packaging bug on our side, i mean
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[16:51:29]<buenouanq>quiliro: does Icecat not either?
[16:51:40]<davexunit>icecat won't play mp4s, which is frustrating
[16:51:46]<buenouanq>I'd never notice because I block everything anyway.
[16:51:49]<davexunit>it also doesn't have working webgl, which is also frustrating.
[16:51:52]<quiliro>civodul: i don't think it is a bug
[16:53:09]<quiliro>civodul: gnome web will not play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlLHlGL1TA
[16:55:17]<quiliro>civodul: but it will download on click https://audio-video.gnu.org/video/misc/2016-07__GNU_Guix_Demo_2.webm
[16:55:59]<buenouanq>plays in Icecat if I disable some of my plugins
[16:56:04]<quiliro>it is possible to click on the download list (down arrow) on the browser and play the video
[16:56:50]<buenouanq>if you've downloaded the video, you can play it with any video player of your choice
[16:57:14]<quiliro>why will it play on icecat and not on gnome web?
[16:57:40]<buenouanq>no idea, but I can confirm now that it doesn't
[16:58:34]<quiliro>buenouanq: what would you call a user which does not want to use the command line
[16:58:37]<quiliro>?
[16:59:21]<quiliro>buenouanq: you just said it did
[16:59:48]<buenouanq>it plays in icecat, it does not play in web
[17:00:19]<buenouanq>a plebeian
[17:00:23]<buenouanq>a casual
[17:00:29]<quiliro>buenouanq: oh...thank you for confirming
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[17:01:23]<buenouanq>an undesirable
[17:02:30]<buenouanq>a lost or misguided unfortunate
[17:07:41]<quiliro>how can i make Gnome Web download the video when i click on it?
[17:08:09]<davexunit>buenouanq: knock it off.
[17:08:15]<quiliro>like it did with https://audio-video.gnu.org/video/misc/2016-07__GNU_Guix_Demo_2.webm
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[17:11:39]<quiliro>buenouanq: what is the advantage of mvp over totem?
[17:12:14]<buenouanq>mpv
[17:12:21]<buenouanq>and I'm not sure, I've never used totem
[17:12:30]<quiliro>buenouanq: not all users want to learn about how computers work
[17:13:04]<quiliro>so making it easy for them is necessary
[17:13:13]<quiliro>or else they would not use computers
[17:13:32]<quiliro>and we would not have work
[17:13:38]<quiliro>to do
[17:13:50]<quiliro>freedom!
[17:13:53]<quiliro>haha
[17:13:53]<buenouanq>knowing how to call a program from the shell has nothing to do with knowing or learning how computers work
[17:14:10]<quiliro>yes...a little
[17:14:15]<quiliro>\not much
[17:14:22]<quiliro>not much but a little
[17:14:34]<quiliro>\many people are not interested in that
[17:14:45]<quiliro>sorry for the backslash
[17:15:01]<quiliro>so there is a choice we have to make
[17:15:27]<quiliro>help them or let them use nonfree systems that provide that help
[17:15:55]<quiliro>it is impossible to ban them from using nonfree software
[17:16:00]<quiliro>or desireable
[17:16:11]<quiliro>it is important to get them on our side
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[17:17:06]<quiliro>if it were not possible to do with free software it is something else
[17:17:11]<quiliro>but it is possible
[17:17:51]<quiliro>buenouanq: what reason is there not to provide such functionality to themn?
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[17:18:46]<quiliro>the backlash is an unintended product of using an english keyboard
[17:19:41]<jmd>quiliro: I have an English keyboard. There is no backlash on any of my keys.
[17:20:05]<quiliro>jmd: above enter key
[17:20:08]<jmd>Well actually that is probably not exactly true. All keyboards will have a small amount of backlash.
[17:20:26]<buenouanq>I firmly believe that web browsers have no right in becoming the terrible bloated media player virtual operating systems they have - Luckily for you, I am a part of a very small minority in this.
[17:20:28]<jmd>Otherwise there would be a lot of key-bounce.
[17:21:02]<quiliro>jmd: :-)
[17:21:11]<quiliro>:-D
[17:21:33]<jmd>Oh you meant "back-slash".
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[17:21:50]<quiliro>buenouanq: i am not against having the media player and web browser separate
[17:22:06]<jmd>Well on the English keyboard, the back-slash is to the left of Z
[17:22:17]<quiliro>jmd : true! sorry
[17:22:43]<buenouanq>A reason might be that we already have perfectly good and often superior tools to do exactly what you ultimately want, and there are more important things to work on.
[17:22:45]<quiliro>jmd: perhaps it is international english the one i have
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[17:23:09]<jmd>quiliro: More likely its a US keyboard.
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[17:25:04]<quiliro>jmd: ok...i get your point now....it is like the act of calling only people from the US American and leaving the rest of America out of this denomination
[17:26:02]<quiliro>US versus UK and Unitedstatesian versus American
[17:26:18]<quiliro>perhaps there is no name for a USA citizen
[17:26:26]<quiliro>a unique one ...i mean
[17:27:11]<jmd>It is interesting that the continent is named after a Spaniard.
[17:27:41]<jmi2k_>Tecnically an Italian :)
[17:27:53]<quiliro>true
[17:28:14]<quiliro>the name should be Abya Yala
[17:28:20]<quiliro>it is the native name
[17:28:33]<jmd>Of which tribe?
[17:28:53]<quiliro>jmd: thank you for showing me the things in perspective
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